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News & Announcements: FEEDBACK: Tipping Shows

Created by: easyfellow

8/16/10 @ 3:05pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 372

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Nothing in life is more certain than death, takes and CHANGE.

We're thinking about making a change, something to improve the engagement level on the site and build on a fun element while making it easier for performers to control their rooms.

The concept is simple: relax the open room rules where basically anything you can do in private (nudity, toys, etc.) is acceptable in open. Make the tipping functionality in open via the gift system easier to use and more fun.

Then, if a model wants to do a sexy strip show in open for tips instead of trying to get one customer to go private; they can.

Definitely not for everyone, but I think some performers would really enjoy it and many customers might have a better time on the site even when they are not the ones tipping, etc.

Curious to hear your thoughts!

Brad

Don't be too curious about the opinions in the Forums, because these are always the same opinions from always the same guys.
They have objections against any renewal that could harm their own personal favorite model.
These guys are not interested in the overall quality of this website.

Just try the new concept if you feel for it and stop it if the majority don't like it.

Its just as simple as that.

If you don't try to improve the site with new ideas, you'll never improve and finally become invisible for customers.

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Created by: Harley Marie

8/16/10 @ 4:18pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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Who said we weren't there... :winkwink

lol and btw some of the top models from this site are also there.I know VS has to be considering this fact,why would they work there and not here? or why do they work in both places and not just here? Do we pay enough? do we have enough traffic? if not enough traffic how can we get more? is it the rules? what is it?? lol.Believe me I understand both sides of the coin here.VS cannot afford to lose top models to other sites just like I couldn't afford to lose good employees in my business.And I understand the models side here as well,I understand a lot of models don't like the format on the other site and I understand why.Done correctly the new format could work and it wouldn't be an uncontrolled zoo like the other place.If we all had a site we know how we would run it,sad fact is this is not our site and like I said before ultimately this is a VS media business decision.

I see through this whole thread that people are simply scared of the change including me,I have been around this site for 5 years and sweated every change they ever made here lol.But we all learned to roll with the punches and accept it.Its a tough economy out there,I don't think its VS's intention to harm anyone.The name of the game is traffic flow in this particular business,don't have any and you don't survive for long and a site where girls can command up to 12 dollars a minute ( my lawyer doesn't even make that kind of money lol) where every other site is in a holding pattern at 6 or less you have to find ways to be competitive.Lets say we have about 5 models who do really well and generate a ton of money per month for VS,then they leave for a month on vacations or they leave to try other sites or leave forever.That kind of instability in employees and profit drops would make me insane as a business owner lol.Retention of good employees is key and in this business you simply cant rely only on a few models bringing home the bacon so to speak only to have them leave for months on end or decide that they wrung enough money out of people here and time to try another place.Would be better if all models were generating revenues so that the profit drops wouldn't be so drastic intermittently.Think its easy to run one of these sites? try it sometime.Start your own site,try to drive traffic to it and keep everyone happy all at the same time lol.

I know some of you said you would leave here if this were implemented,well..leave to where exactly? lol.There are only about 4 major sites that do well and no model here wants to work on the other 3 lol.I am not completely on VS medias side here and I have thrown enough of my own knives at this place for 5 years concerning some of the changes they have made lol but the fact of the matter is the business world is now in a constant state of change.In my own business we have had to make changes we didn't like at first but we learned to roll with it and think positive and try to make things work the best we could to keep people employed.VS media is simply doing what the rest of the business world is doing,weighing the options and trying to do whats best for the company and its employees and to make sure customers have an enjoyable experience here and to keep coming back because customer retention is also a key factor, and if anymore top models leave this place customer retention is going to hit the skids.I see VS's point,I see the models point.My only wish is that through these changes that models will be paid fairly and accurately for their work because without their hard work none of these sites would survive,not even the "other" site....

HAHA GO where...lol... Me likey this post :thumbsup

Roll with it.

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Created by: bpoilslick

8/16/10 @ 9:54pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: deep sea
Posts: 22

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rival sites have been doing the tipping shows for ages, some of the former flirt models have moved on to those sites..better income on there maybe

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Created by: ourjeffie

8/16/10 @ 10:14pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Brisbane Australia, home of the 2032 Olympic Games
Posts: 45,945

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Maybe the grass appears greener on the other side of the fence

And maybe some of the models who "moved on" had to look elsewhere because they were kicked by Flirt4Free

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Created by: brett48

8/16/10 @ 11:27pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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Other sites do it and have no problems. I say try it if you don't like the way its going you can change it back or tweek it as you go.

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Created by: Marilyn Martini

8/16/10 @ 11:58pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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rival sites have been doing the tipping shows for ages, some of the former flirt models have moved on to those sites..better income on there maybe

Just my personal opinion:

Yes, better income!

But you can't pay me enough to sacrifice my dignity in that fashion. I am by no means innocent, no angel and I know that what I currently do here is still considered 'shady' and 'low life of society', and I've suffered those repercussions in my personal life.
But is it so wrong to know one's self worth and hold higher standards and not want to conform to what's HOT right now in 'the industry'?

As an entrepreneur myself, I clearly understand the business aspect...To create more revenue... To be the biggest and the best.. And as said prior in this thread, being the biggest is not always the best... I know there's a slippery slope in this business, and how the money and power can seduce and bring out the dark passenger in the best of people; it's the human condition unfortunately.

I'm sure you know the story of Julius Caesar, a great Roman leader.. Cleopatra cleverly sneaks her way back into Rome and seduces Caesar by indulging him in all of his guilty pleasures; political intrigue, warfare, and his love of luxury and his power hungry spirit. (smart woman lol) Although Cleopatra was a catalyst which conjured up these demons in Caesar, this is what ultimately leads to his demise... Next up, Mark Antony who fell from Roman power in the same manner.. I won't even get started on the Wall Street baboons and 'the perfect storm' they created.
My point is, history always repeats itself, and some of history's 'biggest and best' went down in flames utterly because of the allure and seduction of power... and that truth still holds true today.

Perhaps that was a bit long winded, but I bit my tongue as long as I could (it's bleeding I think) lol
..I hope you can appreciate my perspective.

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Created by: kertus

8/17/10 @ 12:31am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: The Planet Piiiing
Posts: 880

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Just my personal opinion:

Yes, better income!

But you can't pay me enough to sacrifice my dignity in that fashion. I am by no means innocent, no angel and I know that what I currently do here is still considered 'shady' and 'low life of society', and I've suffered those repercussions in my personal life.
But is it so wrong to know one's self worth and hold higher standards and not want to conform to what's HOT right now in 'the industry'?

As an entrepreneur myself, I clearly understand the business aspect...To create more revenue... To be the biggest and the best.. And as said prior in this thread, being the biggest is not always the best... I know there's a slippery slope in this business, and how the money and power can seduce and bring out the dark passenger in the best of people; it's the human condition unfortunately.

I'm sure you know the story of Julius Caesar, a great Roman leader.. Cleopatra cleverly sneaks her way back into Rome and seduces Caesar by indulging him in all of his guilty pleasures; political intrigue, warfare, and his love of luxury and his power hungry spirit. (smart woman lol) Although Cleopatra was a catalyst which conjured up these demons in Caesar, this is what ultimately leads to his demise... Next up, Mark Antony who fell from Roman power in the same manner.. I won't even get started on the Wall Street baboons and 'the perfect storm' they created.
My point is, history always repeats itself, and some of history's 'biggest and best' went down in flames utterly because of the allure and seduction of power... and that truth still holds true today.

Perhaps that was a bit long winded, but I bit my tongue as long as I could (it's bleeding I think) lol
..I hope you can appreciate my perspective.

hmmmm i luv it when u r long winded!! so much more than a gorgeous face and heavenly body!!!

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Created by: bpoilslick

8/17/10 @ 12:52am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: deep sea
Posts: 22

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Created by: segga

8/17/10 @ 2:17am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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just to add the east euro models who simul-cast on here have said they get less pvt from flirt users, so they seem to ignore at times in their room

is pricing a factor? flirt does have the far better interface & live feed though on the plus..

I believe, rightly or wrongly, that what gets paid to some studio models is set by the studio rather than Flirt. Again, I will stand corrected. But one Eastern European model told me that they get 9% of their 'private' income while on Flirt. 91% goes elsewhere (studio owners, Flirt). That's what? 55c a minute? Is it any surprise that most of these girls are spending most of their time on the 'other site'? Maybe it's some of the studios in these places that have brought about this situation? Again, maybe I'm wrong but it's another thought to be put into this debate. Regards,

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Created by: sikecire

8/17/10 @ 3:33am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Southampton(ish), NY
Posts: 64

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Just my personal opinion:

Yes, better income!

But you can't pay me enough to sacrifice my dignity in that fashion. I am by no means innocent, no angel and I know that what I currently do here is still considered 'shady' and 'low life of society', and I've suffered those repercussions in my personal life.
But is it so wrong to know one's self worth and hold higher standards and not want to conform to what's HOT right now in 'the industry'?

As an entrepreneur myself, I clearly understand the business aspect...To create more revenue... To be the biggest and the best.. And as said prior in this thread, being the biggest is not always the best... I know there's a slippery slope in this business, and how the money and power can seduce and bring out the dark passenger in the best of people; it's the human condition unfortunately.

I'm sure you know the story of Julius Caesar, a great Roman leader.. Cleopatra cleverly sneaks her way back into Rome and seduces Caesar by indulging him in all of his guilty pleasures; political intrigue, warfare, and his love of luxury and his power hungry spirit. (smart woman lol) Although Cleopatra was a catalyst which conjured up these demons in Caesar, this is what ultimately leads to his demise... Next up, Mark Antony who fell from Roman power in the same manner.. I won't even get started on the Wall Street baboons and 'the perfect storm' they created.
My point is, history always repeats itself, and some of history's 'biggest and best' went down in flames utterly because of the allure and seduction of power... and that truth still holds true today.

Perhaps that was a bit long winded, but I bit my tongue as long as I could (it's bleeding I think) lol
..I hope you can appreciate my perspective.

Yes some great triumphs have lead to disaster in the past Marilyn, but this isn't flirt venturing forth into the unknown with their original idea for the first time, it's another site's. That site has had this system for years, and has been routinely winning the war of customers and models over flirt, not crashing and burning. Most of the model's opposing this idea sound as if the site is being deleted and re-programmed, it's a single feature being added. If you don't want to "sacrifice your dignity" you can continue working as you are now in premiere accepting privates and voyeurs. ( :bulb

maybe flirt will even add a button to the model interface to disable tipping for a "shift" or work session).

It doesn't have to be accepted, Flirt already has added the topic feature from *cough*, your topic can easily be set to "I don't accept tips for public shows/flashes", then if any member is too stupid to read and tips you after saying "lose the bra", you say read the topic, and it's their loss.

If everyone is afraid that declining the tipsystem won't work because it will become too big of a trend, what does that tell you? Tipping has become more successful than privates, and Flirt customers aren't "dealing with" "having" to go private, but taking a step back and re-evaluating their options, ending up at site B. Flirt can't just stand still and lose all of it's customers to that site because about 2 dozen members of the community who speak up say they don't want this change. The site is controlled by the models, and the models are controlled by the members. The loss of members to that site is what has led to the loss of so many top models, who then show as a "fresh face" on that site. Sooner or later the girls follow the members.

This system would retain the members, and stop or severely slow the loss of both members and models before they lose too many more, since this system is the #1 reason for customer loss at F4F.

I've been around flirt for a few years now, I was here for the introduction of premiere chat, the site revamp, and most recently the new sidepanel, model controlled rates, and virtual gifts. Just about all of those changes caused an uproar, and loss of members (most notably the revamp lol). But some will leave, some will learn to deal with it, and others will signup. I've hung around for all of them, and none of them caused too much of an instant dent in the flow of flirt4free traffic. This one will probably be no different. :thumbsup

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Created by: philharmonic

8/17/10 @ 7:49am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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I was reading the posts on this topic and it seems there's a lot of consensus that switching to a tip-for-show format would take something away from this site that we all like a lot. Maybe. But I also look around and see that there's been a mass exodus of models over the past 18 months, and, if you haven't noticed, the rooms are already flooded with beggars. It sounds to me like it's time to try something different.

Let's also keep in mind that things really started going south when the economy went into the tank 2 years ago. People just don't have as much discretionary income as they used to. I know I don't have as much to spend on shows as I used to. So it's harder for members, harder for models, harder for everyone. My point is that from a business perspective they have to do something different.

Having said that, I also think there might be other options beside going with the tipping format. One thing that has always made me crazy about this site is that there is no reward, no incentive, for longterm customers who've given a boatload of money to this site over the years (such as myself). VIP offers nothing for me. I even have to pay again for shows I've already paid once (vods). I come on the site and all i see are "model appreciation" contests. How about appreciating your customers! My point is that it would also be nice to bring some perks and incentives back into the membership.

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Created by: Marilyn Martini

8/17/10 @ 8:56am (EDT) | UTC - 4:00

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Having said that, I also think there might be other options beside going with the tipping format. One thing that has always made me crazy about this site is that there is no reward, no incentive, for longterm customers who've given a boatload of money to this site over the years (such as myself). VIP offers nothing for me. I even have to pay again for shows I've already paid once (vods). I come on the site and all i see are "model appreciation" contests. How about appreciating your customers! My point is that it would also be nice to bring some perks and incentives back into the membership.

Agreed.

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Created by: kali-s_bear

8/17/10 @ 12:45pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 149

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Agreed.

seconded :thumbsup

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Created by: suggs

8/17/10 @ 1:03pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Left of centre
Posts: 6,768

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seconded

Thirded

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Created by: easyfellow

8/17/10 @ 1:09pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 372

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We have 2 types of customers here:

Type 1 (95%) They come home from work and visit this website now and then, just to relax and have some fun. They spend maximum 1 hour per day on this website. This is the most important group for this website because (due to their quantity) this is the group that feeds ($$$) this website the most. Of course there are beggars and freeloaders in this group, but the group as a whole is the economic cork on which this website is floating.

Type 2 (5%) They are married with this website. They feel pity that they have a job (if they have), because deep down in their hearts, they would prefer to spend 100% of their time on this website. They observe everything in the forums and in the rooms and while they have nothing else to do, they spend their time with wordgames until their favorite models arrive.

The second group is important for specific models, but the first group is more important for a website to survive.
I understand why this website is trying to make it more attractive for the first group, even if some of the type 2 customers would leave.

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Created by: alberich

8/17/10 @ 1:45pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: breaking in, shaping up, then checking out
Posts: 970

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As the original question was if we like the new option or not and not ranting against others opinion I will say again what I don't like at the upcoming feature:

I fear that beggin will even increase and that only topic in rooms will be "show that bat in your ass I tipped you 2 credits". Some may be the opinion that the girls have to take everything as they are paid for it - I am not. I still think treat someone else like you want to be treaten is a good thing.

Protection from recording will be almost impossible. Recording shows in open will be harder to trace - so privacy protection for models as they have with it with a country block will be lowered.

As I was asked how I like that idea and not have been asked for ideas growing up the traffic or how I would like that idea from the economical point of view I still say I don't like it - even if it makes me 100% to a 5% Type 2 member - but maybe I'm a rare type as I love my job.

To understand me correct I am not against opening the rules a bit to seduce and get more PVT's, I don't like the idea of hardcore shows in open.
Seducing should be up to each model - if she likes it fine if not also good. And I am not against tips - I love giving them (both the gifts and giving tips after a great show).

Furthermore Brad asked for everybodies opnion - so I don't think picking on people who say their opnion isn't the right way to go. tell your own and accept other opinions. It's the way democracy works.
I still want to read more opinions from other members - pro and contras.
And Brad - thank you to give us the chance to say our opnion about that - I really appreciate it :thumbsup

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Created by: easyfellow

8/17/10 @ 2:01pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 372

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As the original question was if we like the new option or not and not ranting against others opinion.

As I was asked how I like that idea and not have been asked for ideas growing up the traffic or how I would like that idea from the economical point of view I still say I don't like it - even if it makes me 100% to a 5% Type 2 member - but maybe I'm a rare type as I love my job.

Furthermore Brad asked for everybodies opnion - so I don't think picking on people who say their opnion isn't the right way to go. tell your own and accept other opinions. It's the way democracy works.
I still want to read more opinions from other members - pro and contras.
And Brad - thank you to give us the chance to say our opnion about that - I really appreciate it :thumbsup

I was not ranting or picking on people, i was just giving my opinion.
You are entitled to post yours and i am entitled to post mine.

You think the new plans are bad for the website, because you think it will increase begging, while i think it could be good for the website if the main 95% group of the customers could agree with the idea.

Another part of my opinion is that i don't like that 5% of the members tell all the time, that the other 95% are whiners and beggars and prescribe them how to behave. And i wrote a few sarcastic words about that.
But again that's no ranting, but just part of my opinion. (and certainly not off topic)

I hope you grant me the same rights to post my opinion as i grant you to post yours.

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Created by: morrison

8/17/10 @ 3:41pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Posts: 1

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Created by: hfactor_

8/17/10 @ 4:57pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Hanging with the Princess
Posts: 1,102

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Furthermore Brad asked for everybodies opnion - so I don't think picking on people who say their opnion isn't the right way to go. tell your own and accept other opinions. It's the way democracy works.
I still want to read more opinions from other members - pro and contras.
And Brad - thank you to give us the chance to say our opnion about that - I really appreciate it :thumbsup

Don't waste your time with him Alb, look at his history, his only objective here is to cause arguments and create fueds, F him and his fountains of misinformation. :drinkup

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Created by: suggs

8/17/10 @ 5:20pm (EDT) | UTC - 4:00
Location: Left of centre
Posts: 6,768

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F him and his fountains of misinformation. :drinkup

Rather wank while wearing barbed wire gloves

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Online Models

Sara Maya

Visit My Room

Aurora Hans

Visit My Room

Lara Barz

Visit My Room

Anastasia Vidal

Visit My Room

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