Next time your researching these other sites actually take note of the conversations in each room and tell me how many of the topics of conversations cover artists, authors, books, movies and music etc which take place here on flirt at the moment.



So basically what you're saying is you like that you've got a model who's not that busy on this site and you can corral the open room conversation into a variety of topics. Your fear is that if the new system goes in and increases the amount of people on the site, the only way you'll be able to monopolize her time is by actually going private? I would think if you really liked this girl you wouldn't want any open room conversation, because then she'd be in private earning the whole time. Is this about her...or you?


1 - John Jay has hijacked this thread to promote tipping
Reality of the prices he stated last
People can tip 1 token there . Recommented to tip 10 tokens or higher . Most do tip 10 and not only 1 ONLY the models who use personality to connect get tips over 100 without doing extreme sex acts in open .

2 - The site that uses this model has the most videos posted of the models everywhere
1000 members in a room - gaurantee someone will record and post it .
Mean no area of the world will be blocked as thier family and friends discover way too much

3 - Actual stats of another place
Models on line 642
Models in private 9
Models in group 7

16 models getting paid . 626 scrambing to be more outragoues to collect tips in open
Less than 10% of the models will break 1000 credits before they quit for the day no matter what they do .


Apparently JJ is not the only bias here. Putting aside the fact you accused a guy of hijacking a thread about tipping with posts about tipping, you made some very spurious and quite indefensible points of your own and then drew erroneous conclusions from those points.

You state "most do tip 10"...what is your basis for that? Do you have stats to back that up?

You state only the "models who use personality to connect get tips over 100"...what is your basis for that? Quite the contrary, one of the highest paid models on the site sits on a couch for 8 hours a day and does nothing.

You state that "the site that uses this model has the most videos posted of the models everywhere" yet you then ignore the very reason this takes place which is detailed in your next statement, "1000 members in a room". It's guaranteed you get over 1000 members in a room that show will be recorded, no matter which template the site employs.

You state 'actual stats' as though a one time glimpse is an indicator of anything. If you want a real number, collect the stats for a day and then compare them to flirt's. If you want to talk 1-time snapshots, then okay I just looked at both sites: Flirt has 5 out of 114 online in private (actual real privates) or around 4%. The other site has 25 out of 638 models in group/private or around 4%. Similar paid show stats, yet many more models are earning through tipping on the other site.

You state "626 scrambing to be more outragoues to collect tips in open" as though it's the tipping environment that induces those shows. Has it occurred to you that those girls and those shows exist there because they're allowed there?

You state "Less than 10% of the models will break 1000 credits before they quit for the day no matter what they do"...is that figure pulled completely out of thin air, or do you have attribution for it? I'm guessing the former...



I leave you with this final thought: Axana currently holds the record for longest private show at 24 hours 3 mins, which cost around 57,720 credits. Highest documented tip I have seen on the other site is 68,000 credits. The difference? The tipped girl continued to earn from other people for the rest of the time she was on, and didn't have to sacrifice an entire day or her health to achieve it.
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So basically what you're saying is you like that you've got a model who's not that busy on this site and you can corral the open room conversation into a variety of topics. Your fear is that if the new system goes in and increases the amount of people on the site, the only way you'll be able to monopolize her time is by actually going private? I would think if you really liked this girl you wouldn't want any open room conversation, because then she'd be in private earning the whole time. Is this about her...or you?




No. What I am saying is that I find mental intellectual stimulation more stimulating than purely physical. This is lost when people are only worried about a public show or negotiating tips.
As far as me monopolizing time I was talking about conversation topics that take over the whole room not between a model and myself. If I want one on one time I'll take them private.


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FRIDAY, November 13th, 1789 was when Benjamin Franklin said that nothing is certain but death and taxes.
14+ years of experience and you want to throw the baby out with the bad water?
In my limited experience, my understanding in business, is that once you develop a niche, you damn well better keep it. The oppertunity costs of getting what this site is, is too high to throw away to the lowest bidder.
Why don't you ask the models first and see what works for them. It is THEY not gimmickry that will motivate us to respond.
I have been spending time at the site you are cloning ever since you put my fan rating against others. I never had to spend anything there. I never got off either. The only difference was that I did not stare mindlessly into a curtain in my face wondering what to do.
I appreciate the attempt to change, but somthing does not make sense to me.
You have worked so hard to control missuse of traffic, and now you want their small change?
We, as members must learn how to contribute to a better and more lucrative, successful site. But there has to be a better way.
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Lol. Remember I'm not a VS programmer. I am simply stating personal opinions. Im sure the credit values wouldn't ever be that high. But I do like my general outline for tipping. And yeah maybe ultra vip room or whatever wouldn't be 451 credits. Maybe if something like that happened it would be 100 or less. Who knows.

And someone asked , I dont know why people take him private so much.
Meaning he didnt know why people took me private since I "barely" show anything in free chat.
Well, that is exactly why they take me private. Lol. Because I minimize the amount of muscle or whatever that i'm willing to show in the free open chat room. Which in return increases interest within my customers. They get more excited. They want to see more. And then they proceed to private where they can "view" more.

And it is a personal strategy that has worked or has been successful.
For the most part relatively speaking. And in my mind.

Well the online traffic stats do not lie. And being in the top 2,000 sites in the world means someone must be doing something right. I mean those are real, verified, hardcore statistics that mean something. Quote

One point about "beggars" that I keep forgetting to mention is that we would likely add two buttons for performers:

- Block video from unregistered users
- Block chat from unregistered users (they could read, but not type)

This ends a lot of the nonsense right there. Further, the minute that a performer who is so inclined starts doing something interesting the beggars will leave and rush to that room.

I think we might all be surprised that this idea could curtail begging instead of increasing it.


Brad








Good idea






We have two solutions for this in the works. One involves encrypting the streams; the other involves periodically flashing the IP and/or username on top of the video stream every so often (in open, private, VOD, etc.) in a non-annoying way but in a way that would allow us to trace it back to the offending user when we find these clips.

We actually have someone on staff whose job it is to get those removed so please send the links to our support department if/when you come across them.

Brad






"Periodically flashing the IP and/or username on top of the video stream every so often."



This won't work if it is flashed in one place, because they will just mask that area when they convert the videos, I have seen them hide site names with masking or editing parts out that can show who it was that recorded the show, be it audio or video. Only way to make flashing work is to make it flash randomly in the video area or water mark the effect (so partly transparent) while it flashes randomly so does not disturb the person in private or watching the VOD. Also I think a better way is not to make it obvious by flashing i.ps and user names but making the system create a random string that is related to that video and who was watching it so the chances of it being edited out is small because they don't realise it's used for tracing purposes. Also some clever tricks can be done with layers to stop people recording content on a web site. Only people that know how this process works can fool it. What happens when they try to record the video with some clever layers embedded it will show in the recording only black video. Also these layers can be made to be in one place and cover the whole video or made to randomly move around with shapes that mess up parts of the video to make it record a mess basically. Seen this been done and only computer savy people that use recording software know how to bypass it.

"One involves encrypting the streams"

Great idea too and making the video server change connection ports randomly when a user goes private so when the person goes private only person that has access to the high quality stream has a key with the port info for the video and audio stream. Also the video stream on the preview should be not the same one as the one in private but a low quality one on a different set port/server, also open room will be on the one port too. Hope this makes sense.. I'm sure the dev guys will understand what I mean here. Basically you are trying to stop people capturing the high quality stream via hacking the private data stream and hooking on to it and recording it, by changing ports they would have to scan for the used port which can take a long time also setting the video port to not reply to scans will avoid them finding the port too. The "clone site" we all speak about suffers from this vulnerability aswell as many models are doing shows in open without it being protected that's why they have so many recorded shows all over the internet.

Regards


Nabil Quote

One question: Does this mean that all the models that were removed from the site for inappropriate behavior, i.e. nudity in open room will be allowed back on the site? Its one thing
to make a change, its a different story to change the rules to something that was worth banishing someone from the site. Quote

I won't rehash my lis of 10 or address someone who spoke only about 3 with partially incorrect information .

This is about Flirt - not what other sites are .
I did tell a "snapshot" . I won't stay for hoirs and figure out percentages .
I know people who work at both places .
People chose what works for them .

This is not as Either or choice .
It is about keeping most of the old and adding something that may help models make a better income .

Brad has taken time to study a possibilty to increade revenue for models and the business .
He took time to post this in ALL 4 forums to get feedback .
He has been part of the team that has kept this site going 14 + years .


Rights :

1 - Model has the right to earn the best they can .
They need to earn to support thier lifestyle and pay thier expenses .

2 - The member and visitors can chose what works for them .
Large variety here not on other places [Other site has strict NO MEN on cam rule]
This site has best to know people and have a friendship or intimate relationship

3 - The company has a right to make a profit and grow



I was happy to see the Instant Gift
I use it to show appreciation of the model
I do sometimes use it to hear audio or something extra


I am sure there is a way to incorporate the tipping and tasteful nudity in open
It does not have to be a circus atmosphere

There are a lot of technical aspects Brad ,Purgatory and other have discussed to try to protect the open shows from not being recorded .

Please tell your opinion
All are important
You can also email Brad as he stated in the opening entry

My opinion was stated before .
Flirt is unique product and should save most of it .
There is someway to add more features .
That is how this site has out lasted many .

Keep on visiting your favorite model / models
This is not life or death . All or none .
This is a discussion to seek opinions and ideals BEFORE setting forward . Quote

Believe it or not, John, some models are here for more than just the money. It's the open room experience that keeps me here, I LOVE to entertain! Yes it helps put food on my table, but I also have other sources of income and truly enjoy what I do here.
Visit some of the top models' rooms and you will see that some of the most titillating teases can be in full dress discussing art and travel...

Personality trumps pussy any day of the week. PERIOD. (or cock in your case..)


Greed is nothing more than a bottomless pit which exhausts the person in an endless effort to satisfy without ever reaching satisfaction.



Well said babes i come here more for the interaction and fun with my close members than i do the money dont get me wrong that is a small part but it is way off from the be all and end all of it i take today for example i had a shocker pvts wise but had a ball laughing and joking around teaching my american friends some good old aussie slang and its times like this that i come back for love taylah
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we all know this idea is going to be adopted regardless of what feedback we post which is unfortunate. If a model chooses to work under these conditions then that's their decision but I don't want to see models I've built a relationship with whoring themselves out as a means of survival on the site.

If you really think the new business that this idea will bring to the site is going to lead to an increase in 1 on 1 privates then I think you badly misreading the market. Next time your researching these other sites actually take note of the conversations in each room and tell me how many of the topics of conversations cover artists, authors, books, movies and music etc which take place here on flirt at the moment. instead you have topics like 50 for tits 100 for pussy etc. then in these rooms every 2nd message is about getting a peek or negotiating a deal.

We know the rules on flirt and we abide by them as do the models and the only ones complaining are the ones that don't pay.

Here's a crazy idea, if you're so concerned about generating more money for performers how about the site take less of a cut for the performers work? Crazy I know.




I think I just fell in love with you..... Quote

I think I just fell in love with you.....


And this would prevent sad cases like this http://www.flirt4free.com/forums/threads.php?forum_id=4&thread_id=6583&num_posts=4
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Keep on visiting your favorite model / models
This is not life or death . All or none .
This is a discussion to seek opinions and ideals BEFORE setting forward .


LickaU - Thanks for the post!


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I thought about it some more and truthfully irregardless of what our opinions might be this is ultimately a VS media business decision.If they try it and it works then great,if it doesn't work well then on to the next thing.Change is scary,I think the scariest thing for most is that we will lose our close interaction with models when the truth of the matter is we don't really have to lose it.A good model with the right set of tools at her disposal (ie:ban/eject buttons) with a good attitude will make her room fun no matter what format is in place,I will visit and spend money and time with my favorites irregardless.

On the other place that we all know I have seen models sit there like bumps on a log and not get any tips either much less an actual pvt.Its always been about the attitude of a model that makes her a success in this business and never been about the format she has to work in.The good models will thrive in whatever environment they are placed in,the others will simply fall by the wayside.

I like others want to see models getting more of the lions share of profits,if tipping is instituted I would hope they would see a large cut of that because with tipping and relaxed open room rules also comes more hard work for the girls and they deserve to be paid more plain and simple.Dont think its hard work? go to the "other" place and watch the girls do sexy dances about once every 5 minutes lol,when you suddenly have to entertain an audience of 1000 members it gets pretty tough..

Also just because there will be tipping doesn't mean the model has to do what is requested of her in open.The topic line is in place,if the model says "X" number of credits for a sexy dance then members know that's what they will be seeing and ONLY seeing if they tip.Let the model set the rules completely and the tipping format will survive.

Some girls I have seen here sit in open for hours and never make a dime,I follow the saying that something is better than nothing and maybe tipping for new models would help them break in and hone their craft till they get more popular and at least they will make a few bucks in the process.You have to admit,its tough to be in the shadow of some of the popular models here,tipping might give newbies a fighting chance to survive.

In business you are either growing or dying,there isn't a third direction.Trying something new for any business is not necessarily a bad thing,imagine if no one ever tried to make a change to AC electricity? We would still have coal fired generation plants every 500 yards all over the country making crappy DC electricity (Thank you Tesla...lol).

Give the models more tools to use,allow them to turn off chat from unregistered users if they wish,let the models decide if it will work for them or not and work closely with them for feedback and above all make sure the model is well compensated for her increased efforts that will surely come with this new format. Quote

We could all work at strip clubs and do very well... but there is a reason we're here and not there...

just like you're here and not there... Quote

I agree with all of you guys that dont like this idea!
This looks like a promo to other site -VS want to compete this way ?Well i like it just like it is now ,maybe some rules of open rooms should relax (smoking allowed and any music on ),and some more promo of gift box used to show apreciation and interest in non nude open rooms!
No to tips for show thing !Big NO!


I m back -Kiss ya all! Quote

No one is saying you have to promote "Tip me and Ill get naked" I think it might be nice to have after a show that you did well in if someone could tip you in open....maybe even add in a little "Guys she was GREAT!!!!"

I know i'm posting late so I dont really know if what I am stating has been said already...but its still YOUR room.. Someone tips you say thank you and go about your business. If they ask you hey fuck yourself for tips say NO

Just because "other sites" have models doing things for tips doesn't mean that's what Brad is shooting for....

Or I could have not read enough of the forum and I have it all wrong who knows.....lol



Harley Quote

No one is saying you have to promote "Tip me and Ill get naked" I think it might be nice to have after a show that you did well in if someone could tip you in open....maybe even add in a little "Guys she was GREAT!!!!"

I know i'm posting late so I dont really know if what I am stating has been said already...but its still YOUR room.. Someone tips you say thank you and go about your business. If they ask you hey fuck yourself for tips say NO

Just because "other sites" have models doing things for tips doesn't mean that's what Brad is shooting for....

Or I could have not read enough of the forum and I have it all wrong who knows.....lol



Harley



How the idea that brad first proposed reads, it isnt 'get tip as a thankyou AFTER a pvt' but 'get a tip in open then you do something like suck a toy / flash puusy " basicly a relaxiong what you can show in open.

I'm all for bringing back the open room tip feature but not the possibility of bundling it with the 'cash for a flash' notion that is being suggested

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How the idea that brad first proposed reads, it isnt 'get tip as a thankyou AFTER a pvt' but 'get a tip in open then you do something like suck a toy / flash puusy " basicly a relaxiong what you can show in open.

I'm all for bringing back the open room tip feature but not the possibility of bundling it with the 'cash for a flash' notion that is being suggested




I think bringing the open room tip feature back would be great because when I am in private I am busy and sometimes forget to tip even though I intend to.

Also, more than once waiting on the tip window to pop up has caused my private screen to freeze and eventually gives me an error message. Maybe that connection problem was on my end I really don't know.

Even if a member couldn't afford $30 in credits for a private letting them give a $5 or any other amount tip in open would generate revenue for both models and the site. Quote

I think bringing the open room tip feature back would be great because when I am in private I am busy and sometimes forget to tip even though I intend to.

Also, more than once waiting on the tip window to pop up has caused my private screen to freeze and eventually gives me an error message. Maybe that connection problem was on my end I really don't know.

Even if a member couldn't afford $30 in credits for a private letting them give a $5 or any other amount tip in open would generate revenue for both models and the site.


The only difference between the current "gift" in open room and "tip" in open room would be the name and most likely the amounts we can give. The models will earn the same for the credits spent as if you had spent them in a private session with that model.
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We could all work at strip clubs and do very well... but there is a reason we're here and not there...

just like you're here and not there...



Who said we weren't there... lol and btw some of the top models from this site are also there.I know VS has to be considering this fact,why would they work there and not here? or why do they work in both places and not just here? Do we pay enough? do we have enough traffic? if not enough traffic how can we get more? is it the rules? what is it?? lol.Believe me I understand both sides of the coin here.VS cannot afford to lose top models to other sites just like I couldn't afford to lose good employees in my business.And I understand the models side here as well,I understand a lot of models don't like the format on the other site and I understand why.Done correctly the new format could work and it wouldn't be an uncontrolled zoo like the other place.If we all had a site we know how we would run it,sad fact is this is not our site and like I said before ultimately this is a VS media business decision.

I see through this whole thread that people are simply scared of the change including me,I have been around this site for 5 years and sweated every change they ever made here lol.But we all learned to roll with the punches and accept it.Its a tough economy out there,I don't think its VS's intention to harm anyone.The name of the game is traffic flow in this particular business,don't have any and you don't survive for long and a site where girls can command up to 12 dollars a minute ( my lawyer doesn't even make that kind of money lol) where every other site is in a holding pattern at 6 or less you have to find ways to be competitive.Lets say we have about 5 models who do really well and generate a ton of money per month for VS,then they leave for a month on vacations or they leave to try other sites or leave forever.That kind of instability in employees and profit drops would make me insane as a business owner lol.Retention of good employees is key and in this business you simply cant rely only on a few models bringing home the bacon so to speak only to have them leave for months on end or decide that they wrung enough money out of people here and time to try another place.Would be better if all models were generating revenues so that the profit drops wouldn't be so drastic intermittently.Think its easy to run one of these sites? try it sometime.Start your own site,try to drive traffic to it and keep everyone happy all at the same time lol.

I know some of you said you would leave here if this were implemented,well..leave to where exactly? lol.There are only about 4 major sites that do well and no model here wants to work on the other 3 lol.I am not completely on VS medias side here and I have thrown enough of my own knives at this place for 5 years concerning some of the changes they have made lol but the fact of the matter is the business world is now in a constant state of change.In my own business we have had to make changes we didn't like at first but we learned to roll with it and think positive and try to make things work the best we could to keep people employed.VS media is simply doing what the rest of the business world is doing,weighing the options and trying to do whats best for the company and its employees and to make sure customers have an enjoyable experience here and to keep coming back because customer retention is also a key factor, and if anymore top models leave this place customer retention is going to hit the skids.I see VS's point,I see the models point.My only wish is that through these changes that models will be paid fairly and accurately for their work because without their hard work none of these sites would survive,not even the "other" site.... Quote

I agree with you Marilyn Martini. Quote